[ACCEPTED]Character Balancing

moukanjyo

Member
Apr 12, 2020
10
3
I will re-write something I just added on a previous post:
To bring more balance to the game you can have two options:
1. You can nerf very few characters, this is a few hours/days of work.
2. You can improve many characters, this is week/months of work.

It only makes sense to follow option 1, even if it is an unpopular decision.
Actually, it doesn't make more sense for the option 1 when the nerf is based on the latest chars. A character can be nerfed but still better than others, the result will be -> still OP. All characters needs to be 70-90% equally between them if you look for "balance".

Yes, you can nerf Chungha & RCaisse to a certain point, but compared to other chars, they're still OP. So what will you do afterwards? Work a few more days to balance them a bit more? If even after that they're still OP, will you just say "Well, they are latest chars, obviously needs to be a bit stronger."? Then the whole point of balancing was for naught.

Right at the beginning of the server, MSB, Canna, Chungha, Moon, Charlotte & CLio were already nerfed, but still better than 80% of the total characters out there. You will nerf them more so they're will be a balance between them or between all premium chars?

In the end, the 2 questions will be: 1. What would a balance/nerf to a certain character bring/do compared to other characters of the same Weapon-type/Usefulness/PvP-oriented/PvE-oriented ?
2. If that certain character will be nerfed to be on par with a different character, why the range (latest released char from MSB onwards) is so small?

Cheers~
 

Dianmir

Well-known member
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
899,999,991
477
Actually, it doesn't make more sense for the option 1 when the nerf is based on the latest chars. A character can be nerfed but still better than others, the result will be -> still OP. All characters needs to be 70-90% equally between them if you look for "balance".

Yes, you can nerf Chungha & RCaisse to a certain point, but compared to other chars, they're still OP. So what will you do afterwards? Work a few more days to balance them a bit more? If even after that they're still OP, will you just say "Well, they are latest chars, obviously needs to be a bit stronger."? Then the whole point of balancing was for naught.

Right at the beginning of the server, MSB, Canna, Chungha, Moon, Charlotte & CLio were already nerfed, but still better than 80% of the total characters out there. You will nerf them more so they're will be a balance between them or between all premium chars?
Option 2 is out of question, I will not risk my health or anything else to have weeks of sleepless nights or only few hours of sleep to improve over 100 characters.
A version upgrade to V32.* will improve many characters and make them viable. Yet that isn't an argument to just sit current problems out and wait because future content will solve them.

I believe there is quite a difference in few characters being a) slightly more powerful (OP) due to being newer characters and b) extremely more powerful.
Making all characters balanced with very fine nuances having some characters being better on activity A and other characters being better on activity B is wishful thinking for a private server. Even official game developers can't or won't (in many cases can't AND won't) do that.

The realistic goal is to get rid of problem B where powerlevel of few characters is completly off the charts.
So much off the characters that players don't even need to think and the choice which character to use out of 180 is not needed.

In the end, the 2 questions will be: 1. What would a balance/nerf to a certain character bring/do compared to other characters of the same Weapon-type/Usefulness/PvP-oriented/PvE-oriented ?
2. If that certain character will be nerfed to be on par with a different character, why the range (latest released char from MSB onwards) is so small?
1. A change will add variety, certainly not that it makes all characters viable but instead by making players consider maybe 5-10 characters instead of 2.
The game has design flaws when it comes to characters, their skills and stances and I can't fix root problems. Only trying to repair the worst problems.
2. I am asking that myself and can' think of a good reason other than game producers monetizing the game heavily.
 

petani1

New member
May 8, 2020
1
0
Personally I am all in favor or adjusting the characters. Previous nerfs had quite some negative feedback from groups within community.
As a result we would like to have feedback first though before changing anything.
OH WOWWWW AMAZING!
So when u nerf few first char u dont even listen to feedback from people at all and even make funny game. haha ok i think this one is a progress
 

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Dianmir

Well-known member
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
899,999,991
477
OH WOWWWW AMAZING!
So when u nerf few first char u dont even listen to feedback from people at all and even make funny game. haha ok i think this one is a progress
The picture shown from Discord was obviously sarcasm. I wrote that to let some steam off right after I received various personal messages that contained mostly insults.
I kindly ask you to stay on topic, I don't see how showing that Discord picture helps in any way with this discussion.
 

aris77gr

Active member
Mar 29, 2020
25
8
Giving my 2nd though on the topic but this time answering to the people that are wondering about balance and trying to asnwer to their question of "Please can u balance all chars to be on the same power level".I dunno if u ever played any other game tbh if u asking for something like this.As someone already mentioned balancing perfect and around all chars/items/spells/stances CANNOT and will NEVER be possible in ANY game out there(MMORPG). Ofcourse some characters need to be stronger in certain aspects be it pvp or pve. You can't make those characters provide the same results as lets say a Stock character.Certain tweaks and mini buffs/nerfs tinkering on the numbers can be and are needed to be made as people give feedback about the game situation but that can only happen when the meta shifts and new characters are on the spotlight.In short if the latest characters are not OP/UP there would never be a reason for the developers to even bother with characters balancing
 

moukanjyo

Member
Apr 12, 2020
10
3
Giving my 2nd though on the topic but this time answering to the people that are wondering about balance and trying to asnwer to their question of "Please can u balance all chars to be on the same power level".I dunno if u ever played any other game tbh if u asking for something like this.As someone already mentioned balancing perfect and around all chars/items/spells/stances CANNOT and will NEVER be possible in ANY game out there(MMORPG). Ofcourse some characters need to be stronger in certain aspects be it pvp or pve. You can't make those characters provide the same results as lets say a Stock character.Certain tweaks and mini buffs/nerfs tinkering on the numbers can be and are needed to be made as people give feedback about the game situation but that can only happen when the meta shifts and new characters are on the spotlight.In short if the latest characters are not OP/UP there would never be a reason for the developers to even bother with characters balancing
For obvious reason the latest chars needs to be OP. But it's ironically that even tho everyone is aware of that, they still feel the need to "balance" them.
While some adjustments are needed, i'm not sure if nerfing latest chars will stop people from using them and others from complaining that they are still OP. :)
 

Darth_Bane

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2020
45
8
I should say we shouldnt to go custom rebalance way. If we go then gg, let KGE decide which nerf better for chars. KGE doing well with nerf\buff characters actually. Btw if you nerf that chars, a lot of ppl who got them just will be frustrated from that.
Anyway my opinion about r kess field pvp its absolutley balanced char. About xworld pvp maybe need nerf but actually he got nerf his chance for debuff and for example after that any ania rape him hard lol. I guess ppl who cry just dont understand how to play agaist him or just want kill him with their favorite chars but the best chars for kill him others. He balanced coz have a lot of counter chars. Its almost all invisers, many high block chars.
Chungha actually hard to use in pvp and i doudbt if she imba. Pve sure imba and the best phys. So if you want kill all chars with top dmg then its your chose xD But i disagree with any unofficial nerfs. Please dont do that.
 

Airiin

Member
Mar 30, 2020
11
9
If you really must nerf, just nerf it for WxPvP since it's the same few that keep complaining about her dmg and not being able to withstand it. Otherwise all in all, I feel like there really isn't a need to nerf at all. My first round of PvP, I fought chungha using non meta chars (val, hermes and dietrich) and it went just fine. As mentioned by many players, there are many counters to chungha, you just gotta find it.

As for PvE, no nerf please. Her being extremely squishy kinds of makes up for her dmg output. She can hardly withstand any hits from bosses to do any dmg in the long run. Maybe my gears are subpar, but not everyone in the server has all the time to get end game gears rn. Yes, many things are readily available, but many casual players like me have limited time to gear. Which means the amount of effort we put in to gear a character is diff. Having a customized nerf would really just undermine alot of our efforts so do expect a lot of people to be upset (kind of a given but yeah). So no to customized nerfs.

In regards to the comment talking about people getting to end game faster if we don't nerf her PVE dmg, nerfing her dmg doesn't prevent that lol. Nerfing her make raids a whole lot longer than what it would take. For casuals, I don't know if you understand the weight of this. We don't have a lot of time to invest in this game, and everyone knows how many raids, dailies, quests there are to do in this game. Mind you, skyroad will still take a while if you don't know how to control your characters or have the right mechanics down. Ranks will take a whole lot longer to finish, etc. And even if we do get to end game, how do you know we'll get bored? There's SO many things to do in this game than just build gears. There's farming, achievements, quests, scheduled raids (ST etc). Bored? Getting bored of a game is highly subjective. Game's been around for more than 10 years, you don't see these veteran players getting bored after reaching end game.

As for R.Kess, although his dmg output is high, he isn't the top player in CB lol. Like every other coat user, he's hella soft compared to so many characters out there. There are so many that counters R.Kess, if he really was so overpowering, why isn't he the top killing character in CB? Just because some players got one shot or can't block his attacks, he becomes a threat to every single character available? In the case of WxPVP, the entire pvp situation's different. Your abilities are actually being tested as you use different characters. It could be possible that the characters you used just wasn't a good counter to R.Kess, otherwise there's so many characters you can use to counter. And in WxPVP, it's just you versus another player. In field or in CB, it's a whole mass of pvp. Perhaps having the fixed mode for WxPvP would help solve their problems of not being able to kill said characters.

Tldr; Against any custom nerf, unless it's from KGE. KGE's doing great with balancing atm anyway. Besides, there's no such thing as "balancing" really, in every mmo out there, there is always a Meta.
 

Jaety2316

New member
Apr 7, 2020
4
0
why so many player want to nerf chungha ?? zz becuase they dont choose it from stone hm ?? because they dont know how Good chungha is ? they picked other indemand character that they know have a highest damage from the past ? o cmmon make sense guys ! buy chungha play chungha ! for you to experience Good the manage sooner or later server will release character that have a more powerful than chungha .. so pls dont nerf it dont be raised like that . just enjoy and play the games be happy ❤😊
 

Arcanine

Developer
Staff member
Mar 28, 2020
434
378
why so many player want to nerf chungha ?? zz becuase they dont choose it from stone hm ?? because they dont know how Good chungha is ? they picked other indemand character that they know have a highest damage from the past ? o cmmon make sense guys ! buy chungha play chungha ! for you to experience Good the manage sooner or later server will release character that have a more powerful than chungha .. so pls dont nerf it dont be raised like that . just enjoy and play the games be happy ❤😊
We only want her nerfed for world cross pvp.
 

amaya182

New member
May 18, 2020
4
0
Since the server has these categories in getting the premium characters, why don't we make those in the same category be on the same power lvl?

Like, all the chars in High Master summon stone would be the top tier in PVP or PVE and those in Expert and Master summon are mid-tier chars.

It's kinda boring to see only Chunghas and Cannas in raids, R.Kess in pvp. I wanna see variety of chars being used in fields. That way, many chars would be usable and not just rot forever in our barracks just like other GE servers.
 

seichirui

New member
Apr 11, 2020
2
0
I am against any rebalance that KGE does not have.
I agree to this. Those characters were designed that way, if there will be a nerfed, it should be based on the Official Server and not because ppl complain about it, because if you do, this "nerfed" cycle will not end.
 

Harland

Member
Apr 16, 2020
11
1
those characters are "balanced" in a way that more people would buy the new cash shop characters
just because its an official server does not mean it is completely right.
 

Zero5944

Member
Mar 30, 2020
6
0
those characters are "balanced" in a way that more people would buy the new cash shop characters
just because its an official server does not mean it is completely right.
True and they got nerf right after to sell the next cash shop NPC.
ChungHa already got her nerf that Dianmir backport from a newest version and she is perfectly fine like that. Same for R Caisse.
 
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BabyVenus

Member
Mar 30, 2020
9
5
those characters are "balanced" in a way that more people would buy the new cash shop characters
just because its an official server does not mean it is completely right.
Unfortunately, with this logic, then all of the nerfs should carried out to all Vet, Exp, Master and HM Characters to the RNPC levels, removal of those said character stones and all character should be put in feso shop to achieve the overall balance across the board.
 

Harland

Member
Apr 16, 2020
11
1
Unfortunately, with this logic, then all of the nerfs should carried out to all Vet, Exp, Master and HM Characters to the RNPC levels, removal of those said character stones and all character should be put in feso shop to achieve the overall balance across the board.
the point is... what is the focus of this server? to earn money? if so, then those cash characters are made that way to be worth it
but if this server's goal is just to have balanced fun, then yeah those characters should either be nerfed down to rnpcs level or buff those rnpcs