[DECLINED]Reduce cooldown time for surrender for faction war

[ECEXEC]

Reduce time required to surrender faction war.
Suggestion to reduce time required to surrender war between faction, reason being there's some troll in the server that's killing AFK player of PVE faction.

• Why is the idea good, which current problem does it fix, which mechanic does it improve?

1. I'm not sure if currently in official server there's still pvp and pve server, as we are all in 1 PVP server, this will provide place for PVE only faction / players in PVP server.
Some players are just not interested in pvp, namely me!

2. Newer player can join PVE faction wont get harassed by troll that just hunt for afk player.

3. And it's not even a PVP if the troll just hit and run.

• How urgent is this, rate 1-5 (1 = low, 5 = high)

2/3 maybe ?

• Will it affect the game economy?

I'm not in any PVP faction, i understand that the war function outside CW is heavily used in WB fight for some factions, so i cant say how it'll affect faction that's warring for WB if it's possible to surrender earlier. Input from PVP factions player will be greatly appreciated here.
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• Will it affect a core feature of the game?

Same as above

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happen if suggestion is accepted?
1. healthier community, removing toxic troll that runs around ruining other people experience.

How will this rule be enforced if suggestion is accepted?
reduce time to surrender for war to 24 hours.

 

[Dianmir]

Suggestion status has been changed to [PENDING].

It has come to our attention that certain factions declare war specifically on PVE factions to kill their faction members without any specific reason.
There has been an increasing amount of complaints about this on Discord.

We would like to remind players about discussion of the past on this/similar topics:
https://granado-espada.to/index.php?threads/its-legal.458/
https://granado-espada.to/index.php?threads/declined-pacifist-mode-for-players-and-factions.459/

In the past we had huge doubts about changing the faction war declaration/surrender system.
Now we would at least like to hear players opinions on this matter. Please take note that a pacifist mode as suggested previously still isn't possible.

I still stand by my opinion regarding the pros/cons of being a faction member:

The pro is you have access to the faction buff and faction missions, the con (risk) is getting killed by players from enemy factions.

The risk of getting killed from enemy faction players is a valid one and will remain, it is a competitive factor though.
I don't see any sense in this just to be able to troll/harass/annoy players of PVE factions which don't even play competitively in the first place.

We could look into other parameters though, for example reducing the surrender time or the maximum of war declarations per faction.

 

[Dusted]

To be honest, I think I speak on behalf of ALL PVE PLAYERS in Andromeda regarding this issue.
This issue alone has caused a major kill in server's population.

What is upcoming v32 when you have this sort of toxicity behavior that continuously brushes away PVE players?
As mentioned by the post writer, THREE if not TWO PVE factions are now becoming zombie-land because of this particular issue.
I might as well name them. L'arc'en'ciel is completely DEAD with zero players online.
Offline and Eloquence are still running but with how many members averaging a day compared to months ago? The ONLY PVE Faction left I can see is Eunoia and they've start to run into issues recently but they reverse it somehow one way or the other. How long can this last, honestly? Not very long.

On top of that, market sure as hell has inflated since there are no longer PVE players farming materials in field to sell in market while PVP players too busy getting at each other's throat in field/WB/CW let alone do farming?

Their materials are mostly bought from market/broads from vis earned in CW and donation (not the high-tier mats of course, but simple mats that is across all pioneering maps). Don't forget dailies. With reduction in population, less people do dailies. Refer to point above. Inflation.

Whilst I agree with reducing surrender period to 24 hours, I strongly recommend to just swing a ban hammer for the entire server's sake. Why? Simple.
Revive the server (even if it is just a little bit) with one tiny removal that is affecting the entire game as a whole.
There's a saying "Make an example of one, and there will not be another round of this issue as players are made aware and will think twice before doing anything drastic).

We have both PVP and PVE players choosing to donate to support the server but i personally believe a game like GE cant survive with purely PVP.
Perhaps in the future when all PVP players have what they need. What would that make of GE Andromeda? Dead server with players just logging in for WB and CW. I do not wish to see this happen as Dianmir has worked his butt off to get us v32 and it looks very promising for a private server.

This is PVE's perspective of things. As a matter of fact, with this "troll" going around declaring every single faction there are already players looking to go on hiatus mode and I am one of them.

If all the points mentioned above do not cater to the level of hurt it will bring to the game, I truly do not know what will.
I hope Dianmir will take this into serious consideration as some PVE players really love this game and the friends we've made here. Whichever GE we go, we somehow always make new friends and that turns into a bond/friendship that lasts for so long. GE itself is over 10+ years old yet every server is filled with players.

To close this off, I suggest to turn this into a poll instead and let the people vote on what they deem is right for the server for once and for Andromeda's sake. I believe if it does turn into a poll, the poll results will very likely be in unison.

 

[vonDrach]

as this Topic coming up again i gonna throw my 2 cents into the Bucket aswell.

im a PvE player , but i also had to fight back then as K2 and Gamersfirst still had Publishing rights.

I will welcome a change , but i dont mind if not. if you`re in a faction you have positiv and Negativ things. and this so called "trolls" dont need a reason for war, if they wanna fight they can. cause you call it a PvE faction doesnt mean you cant be attacked. they dont focus on a specific Faction or Person so i dont see any Harassment.

if you dont wanna get killed :

a. Factionless [Baron mode not counted)
b. stay inside PvE Zones

You cant just cherry pick the aspects you wanna have.

TBH back then they had way more troll ways then just killing afk ppl and run away. they are more like a fly you cant catch.

i would personal speak with my Faction that i leaves for a while to farm stuff without interruption, if there is no way to handle it otherway and come back and still raid with them.

in my Honest Opinion , this all sound a bit entiteled. Sure such Behavior is not welcomed, but if thats allrdy a reason the Server Population crashes you better buckle up, cause the world is more worse then that.

 

[meta00]

Here's my perspective -- full disclosure: I consider myself a "PVE player" and have been warred by these folks multiple times now.

Anyone using the faction war system in its current state isn't violating any game/community rules, and they shouldn't be banned. Faction warring is a valid game mechanic, and it's someone's prerogative to declare war on who they please. There are valid reasons to declare war on a "PVE faction", e.g. fighting over limited field map farming spots / market supply.

That said, I don't think the sort of "troll" playstyle we've seen of warring any and every faction is conducive to a healthy playerbase long-term. These few players regularly clear field maps of other players who are AFK. There is no counter to this playstyle since the targeted players are often not monitoring their account (sleeping or working or whatever).

What I have noticed is that players affected by this will either (1) outright quit the game or go on hiatus for some number of weeks, or (2) leave the warred faction. Why would players bother getting annoyed at finding dead characters every time, when they can just play another game? IMO the splintering of people out of factions also hurts the community, and leads to players slowly losing interest in aGE. It's hard enough to form squads for raids, and turning people to factionless playstyles doesn't help.

I think the suggestion in the original post is the best compromise. Dropping the surrender cooldown still allows the warring players to click on reds as they wish, but also alleviates things for players who are not interested in PVP. "PVE players" are the silent majority that keep the server and the game economy afloat.

Counterarguments:
* Joining a faction for the faction buffs and missions should carry the risk of getting killed by players from enemy factions.

I agree with this, but as mentioned above I think there should be a reasonable middle ground for PVE players that want to farm in field maps and be a part of a faction for the community, forming raid squads, etc.

• What about baroning? It has long been a GE mechanic for AFK field map farmers to be at risk of being killed.

Baroning is more or less nonexistent on this server since nobody wants to use their alt account for that purpose. Hence why warring "PVE factions" should still be allowed, but with some compromise.

 

[Dusted]

Every declaration should be backed up with good reasoning and not stupidity or just for the feeling of superiority over players who enjoy the game casually.
Apparently, this is not the case because this troll and his stupid broads "ez medal", "cleaning server & whatnot" is getting to a lot of people and this is why this post was made. Maybe it is just my hate that is too far to big now that I am asking for a ban hammer instead of just accepting 24 hour surrender period. To be honest, 24 hours is still a long time. How many times can a player sit infront of the PC and keep checking if their chars are dead so they can relog and repeat this cycle? If it was lagged out or map crash, we'll take it. If we were in PVP faction, we were asking for it by
afk-ing in field but no. A PVE faction that does not compete competitively <- this point alone is one of many that eats me up.

Look at KanariShizukana who got declared on previously by the troll now is no longer at war. Why? One word: Network.
I won' say anything else as this involves other players that worked for all this information.
Look at Sunday faction. A 6 man faction which is barely known in-game and they're declared on again without solid reasonings.
No one is bothered to even try and get a truce because in everyone's minds; there is just no way to be able to get a truce. Wait, there is. Networking.

In all honesty, my ultimate goal is clear cut here. That is to make an example of one by perma-ban one for server's sake and PVE sake.
Note this when I say I am one of few players who are considering to go on hiatus is NOT in anyway a threat to Dianmir implying that if we don't get perma ban we will go on hiatus. It's just that we've had enough of this shitty toxicity in a private server that ends us up in a spot where we cannot enjoy the game in peace.
Game is no longer fun for PVE players who had to leave faction just to afk in field. Sure, the pros and cons are being weighed by being in a faction but ever since server started, Offline, Larcenciel and Eloquence were the true PVE factions where you can even park your alt inside for buffs.
How many more factions now are truly not at war and PVE-based? I think five fingers can count them all.

Just one question to the people that read this post, is asking for a perma-ban too much? From the way I see it, I don't see anything wrong with what I am asking for at all. This is all I want to know.

 

[ECEXEC]

Asking for ban is too much in my opinion, its just so happened that he is not breaking any rule.

As this war function is used by pvp factions for competitive reason, reducing it to shorter than 24 hours have potential of abuse, for example surrender war just before WB.

There are only few of them in the troll faction, making them work hard for declare points sounds fair enough , maybe theyll start pulling their other members thats hiding in other faction, and we can hunt them down easier, as matter of fact if war is for pvp and competitive purpose lets turn war on more map, armonia apostedaro, rrhm to name a few, even town, as for now the only place everyone can spank this little troll is at ctb entrance, pvp is turn on there their gang like to raid ct and ctb.

 

[red20ro]

Regardless whether you agree, or not.
The foundation feature of the game itself is what makes the game toxic and frustrate players - and I meant this in almost all aspect of the game mechanics.

I've put myself on hiatus, since I only played this game cause I want to enjoy the content. But to do so, you need to be fully geared.
Can't really do that if I'm being killed almost every time while farming for materials.
While I can leave the faction to do the farming, doing so negates me from all the faction benefits, so technically its not a win-win situation.

To add insult to injury, we've got this very toxic high-tier faction (few months back when I was still playing), it really just kills it whenever you want to login into the game.

At this point, I just got to place my best wishes to the server and hope it recovers from the loss (if any).

Signing out.

 

[BlackCoffee]

I was once an active PVP player/WB defender in the other server and eventually I got tired of it and left. I found out about Andro and it's very promising. I wanna lay low and just log-in to enjoy the game because I love Granado, but toxic players are everywhere even on broads, trolls are everywhere. If you have a clan, they will war and hunt you. If you are clanless, they will hunt and baron you. I remember there was a NON-PK server before, I was looking for one, but none these days. I agree with whatever can help those players who only wanna do PVE and enjoy the game.

 

[AzureRainz]

Seeing this kind of post when people wants to return kinda a turnoff.
Reducing the CD time of surrender isnt going to work if it is so easy to get points to war again and having a delay time to war again could have effects in WB field raids. no matter what is done there will be an affect to pvp factions as well. But if the aim of this thread is aim directly for the PVE population i would suggest 3 things, One which is to Increase point drastically to start a war with a unwilling faction combined with a 2 day CD for surrender . Second.. (not sure if this is doable) to make Warring require at least 50 people in a faction to start so that the Trolling faction or whoever cant just create alt to fill them in the faction.(eg no more then 2 accts allowed rule.) unless... there a 25 unique people doing this....
third one is well allowing the faction to be able to level to a higher level (for faction buff) while holding neutral status= no TDLS as a drawback

 

[Dusted]

If you're purely saying this is a turn-off for you mainly because you are a PVP player throughout your playing time in Andromeda then you're nowhere close to thinking about this from PVE perspective.

I will await action of Dianmir that he sees fit but at the same time one that will determine the liveliness aspect of PVE in the server.
I can only hope Dianmir knows what is best for his server.

 

[Spadasin]

This request is because some toxic players whit 10 family faction declare war to all

 

[AzureRainz]

If you're purely saying this is a turn-off for you mainly because you are a PVP player throughout your playing time in Andromeda then you're nowhere close to thinking about this from PVE perspective.

I will await action of Dianmir that he sees fit but at the same time one that will determine the liveliness aspect of PVE in the server.
I can only hope Dianmir knows what is best for his server.

It a turn off to returnee and newbie when there is pvp when all they want to do is to catch up with afking/PVE content.
I am only stating the fact that no matter what is done it will affect current PVP factions.
Before you reply pls read everything which is a attempt at giving solution to have a mild effect for PVP faction while keeping PVE faction safe.
I play both PVP and PVE throughout SGE,EuGe and now AndroGE. I understand the frustration of getting killed while afking even when you switch to a PVE faction . Being an online game and private server its not about ONLY PvE player but also PvP player. Sure Dianmir will decide the path and rule the server will take but having more suggestion is better isnt it.

 

[Frunzila]

10 family faction

And maybe all are him alts

 

[Dianmir]

And maybe all are him alts

We already checked this when the topic first came up, so no need to worry here.

 

[forumstone]

Reduce time required to surrender faction war.
Suggestion to reduce time required to surrender war between faction, reason being there's some troll in the server that's killing AFK player of PVE faction.

• Why is the idea good, which current problem does it fix, which mechanic does it improve?

1. I'm not sure if currently in official server there's still pvp and pve server, as we are all in 1 PVP server, this will provide place for PVE only faction / players in PVP server.
Some players are just not interested in pvp, namely me!

2. Newer player can join PVE faction wont get harassed by troll that just hunt for afk player.

3. And it's not even a PVP if the troll just hit and run.

• How urgent is this, rate 1-5 (1 = low, 5 = high)

2/3 maybe ?

• Will it affect the game economy?

I'm not in any PVP faction, i understand that the war function outside CW is heavily used in WB fight for some factions, so i cant say how it'll affect faction that's warring for WB if it's possible to surrender earlier. Input from PVP factions player will be greatly appreciated here.
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• Will it affect a core feature of the game?

Same as above

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happen if suggestion is accepted?
1. healthier community, removing toxic troll that runs around ruining other people experience.

How will this rule be enforced if suggestion is accepted?
reduce time to surrender for war to 24 hours.

It doesn't go against the game's mechanics so why making fuss out of it? Here are few suggestions for you :

1) Go factionless, only barons could hit you on normal maps.
2)Buy premium tickets to enter dungeons.

All of the points given by you to justify the wrong acts of "trolls" being made by the said player are totally absurd.

 

[Dianmir]

I invested quite some time over the last days thinking about this and also looked at server files.
First, let's get some topics cleared out.

1. As it currently is, declaring war on another faction doesn't require any actual reason, faction leaders can do what they want.
There is no rule against using war declarations for whatever reason people want to (trolling, annoying, competition,etc.)
2. Since nobody has broken community rules, there won't be any bans. We don't ban people without violation of rules.
3. We see the necessity to adjust the war declaration system for the greater good of the server.

We believe that the war declaration system has multiple purposes, namely the following: PVE and PVP competition.
We don't want to change anything about the system that would take players possibilities to use this for actual competition.

Yet we also believe that the war declaration system doesn't serve any purpose for killing players from enemy factions for fun or to annoy them.
The best example for this would be the middleground where players just want to AFK farm for a couple of hours. Killing such a player doesn't serve any competitive purpose.

As stated by players before, players who get killed in a repetitive manner could evade this problem by being factionless or stop AFK leveling/farming.
The server population doesn't allow such a luxury though, factions are a major factor for the community and keep players invested into the game.
It is true that killing other players just for fun is another aspect of "freedom of choice" and we believe that freedom of choice is important.
Yet this freedom of choice can also have a negative impact on other players to an extent where they leave the server out of frustration.

Now for the actual solutions to this issue.
1. Decreasing the duration of faction wars (14 days) isn't possible, the function is hardcoded and can't be configured.
Furthermore this would cause actual issues between factions that use this function for competitive aspects.
2. Adding a delay after the war declaration has ended isn't possible for the same reasons as point 1.
3. Decreasing the count of war declarations from 10 to lower isn't possible, we would have to end current declarations for all factions.
Furthermore this wouldn't solve the issue as players could simply create 2 factions instead of 1 (1 with main account, 2 with alt account).
4. Increasing amount of war declaration points required to declare war isn't possible, the function is hardcoded and can't be configured.

5. Solution: Decrease the amount of war declaration points that can be obtained. This can be configured, doesn't require any changes in database and could be implemented within 1 hour of work for any upcoming maintenance.
This requires factions to actually do activities like Faction Missions to obtain war declaration points and to household with them.
Yet it won't have much influence on factions that consist of multiple players. It will only make it harder for factions that are made up of mainly/purely alt account which declare war without the competitive aspect.

We welcome players to keep discussing this matter, especially what you think about the possible change (point 5).

 

[progorus]

Im bad at english tho ~
But actually who even need pvp in this game? Its so buggy, laggy and toxiic, pvp players are unstable, they always leaving this server with my debt money, no trust ~Afk farming killing live servers, but actually faction wars dont affect it at all: afk farmers just leave factions. That also makes that stuff kinda manipulative, because you can just, i dunno, KICK players from enemy faction, really? It even sounds marasmatic ~
About PvP for fun: pvp factions already fighting non-stop, no1 can stop them, and no1 wanna stop xD
Also peaceful factions technically cant fight against: farm chars usually cant be used for pvp mechanically, switching chars cant be used on some locations and also cant be used at all because switching time is 2 huge, reds can just run away zzzz. And im not even speaking about skill, gear, team and setup zzzz

So whats the point?
Actually we want it just because of a single server faction, who are not even fighting, just running away from my cannas, LOOOOOOOL.

Oh, and this idiotic stuff also can deal you some financial costs, because, like, imagine the situation:I found place, stand afk, and went to work or smth. Guy killed me, now I need to resurrect. If I will not - it cause me some cost, because im actually have 750 watt power block and my gear eats a lot of expensive electricity ~ Not getting any reward for this can be just financially unexeptable for some poor players like me, who cant even got nvidia 3080, and we will be forced to quit the game because of starving *sob sob*
What?
I told you im bad at english, imo! XD

 

[Sylvan96]

IMO there is no reason to change this game mechanics. For these people whom u called "trolls", they are simply enjoying the game in their own way removing that from them will make them quit. You might have removed just a small portion of these people to allow the other smaller group of ppl that afks which will simply quit after they get bored of afking anyway its just a lose-lose situation. I dun think they have fun afking 24/7 and if the game isn't fun they would eventually quit.

If people are afking to earn vis, solutions are as follows:
participate in instanced missions, they are so much more rewarding u can earn 150m+(more if u are lucky) in less than 2hrs

If people are afking to farm materials, how about adding these materials to ranked shops?It encourage people to actively play instead of afking 24/7 to get the materials.

People who can join due to them being weak can start out as buffer or debuffers, there is no need for high end eq(not that instanced missions need high end eq either). If slots are not enough and people cannot join eg. raids like bible hard and quiri why not increase the slots from 6 to 12 or smth.

To me if changed is made to help these people afk smoother, these people are going to quit no matter what you do. Why? Imagine logging into a game to afk 24/7, is it fun? If that is fun for them they really have to find another game that lets them afk. If they are joining a faction just to socialize, why not go factionless and make a group chat or even better use a chatting platform like discord =/

Encourage people to not afk instead by making lower instanced mission more rewarding is one way.

I know i repeated some points above, i am lazy to edit it but those are important points anyway.

 

[forumstone]

Im bad at english tho ~
But actually who even need pvp in this game? Its so buggy, laggy and toxiic, pvp players are unstable, they always leaving this server with my debt money, no trust ~Afk farming killing live servers, but actually faction wars dont affect it at all: afk farmers just leave factions. That also makes that stuff kinda manipulative, because you can just, i dunno, KICK players from enemy faction, really? It even sounds marasmatic ~
About PvP for fun: pvp factions already fighting non-stop, no1 can stop them, and no1 wanna stop xD
Also peaceful factions technically cant fight against: farm chars usually cant be used for pvp mechanically, switching chars cant be used on some locations and also cant be used at all because switching time is 2 huge, reds can just run away zzzz. And im not even speaking about skill, gear, team and setup zzzz

So whats the point?
Actually we want it just because of a single server faction, who are not even fighting, just running away from my cannas, LOOOOOOOL.

Oh, and this idiotic stuff also can deal you some financial costs, because, like, imagine the situation:I found place, stand afk, and went to work or smth. Guy killed me, now I need to resurrect. If I will not - it cause me some cost, because im actually have 750 watt power block and my gear eats a lot of expensive electricity ~ Not getting any reward for this can be just financially unexeptable for some poor players like me, who cant even got nvidia 3080, and we will be forced to quit the game because of starving *sob sob*
What?
I told you im bad at english, imo! XD

I hope you could rephrase your writings better. Something is off especially in the last paragraph, there's no relation between quitting the game due to starving and financial problems unless the game is returning something to u in real life.