[PENDING]Reduce PVP dmg
- Thread starter Penelope
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@i8mykeyboard I'm not talking about a certain character here but aight , all i wanted with this suggestion is the create a more fun and healthier way of pvp . Yes charlotte will still deal alot of dmg to you (she is a character that is very overpowered ), but like i stated before i'm not just talking about only her . I've played for years on the RGE server where we had - pvp dmg and i can tell you it makes pvp so much more fun because you actually need to put some effort into killing your enemies and because of that it attracted alot of pvp players . Other than that i won't respond anymore , everyone can vote and let's see what gm's will do.
Charlotte along with other OP was specifically mentioned in Discord as an integral part of the reasoning behind the idea, as far as I remember. To reduce all damage and leave them with their current ability will deal a much greater damage to PvP than provide a positive output.
Fun is relative, everyone has a different way of having it. It's not a qualitative argument.
->The trillions of dollars you wanna put into the game are still gonna make you deal the most damage, it´s just 25% less for everyone. It´s not about one army deal less damage, it´s about that right now every army deals WAY TO MUCH damage overall. It´s not about giving the enemy a chance, it´s about giving yourself a chance to get a use of the equip you just spend trillions of dollars for. Else it´s gonna be enough to spend 20$ to maximize your effectiveness and wipe the whole table. Your trillion dollar equip is not gonna make a difference.
-> It´s not gonna be easier to nerf a few chars and skills. Because it´s not about only a few chars. Every char that is used right now in pvp, can still be used after this. They just get less "braindead". Its about to combine your 3 chars to get a kind of symbiosis out of it. For example you could use a Wizard to debuff and finish the enemy with your second char. Right now there is no point for combinations like this. Right now just use the same char 3 times to maximize your kill/death rate.
-> Again: Right now it makes less sense to play with old chars because everybody is gonna die in 1hit anyway. And every char that is not gonna kill with 1hit right now, is allready dead.
->These people are still gonna kill you in a second. The thousands of hours farming are gonna be even more rewarding because the gear you get out of it will be a little more useful afterwards.
->Yes thats the point, to get a use the pots. Keeping or not keeping the pots right now will make no difference either. They would have a cooldown, like in other mmorpg, if you should not be able to use them. If you are not be able to kill a person who is using pots, then you don't deserve the kill. Furthermore you can also use the pots to get invincible.
->No, it does not force you to develop skill. But it gives you an incentive to develop some, because you could take advantage of it. But 1shotting everyone will make you even less develop skills. The better player should win. He may even have the option to compensate his bad gear a little. The whole point is to make it abit less p2w. No, it´s not about giving a bad player an excuse "I could not kill you because we deal 25% less damage". All it probably does is that geared people maybe need an excuse because all their money won't guarantee them victory.
->Yes thats the point, not getting 1shot from people even with low gear. - Okay, that's maybe a bit contradictory but let me make this clear. On the one side you should be able to kill a person that have better gear than you. But only because you can fight better and not because you use more soul crystals. But on the other side a person with low gear should not be able to kill you in 1hit because you are very well geared. Thats the whole point of getting gear. To not get 1shot by everyone. Else I dont have to gear up because everybody is gonna kill me anyway. But I still may have a chance to a better geared person because I have more experience in pvp.
->No, XPVP is something completely different In XPVP two player fighter each other with the exact same gear. Just because of experience in pvp, knowlegde about the chars and a bit of luck decides who is gonna win. After this change you will still have an advantage because of your better gear. It just makes the whole pvp abit less lame.
So, once again: The change will not make it impossible to 1shot someone. The OP player, as you mentioned, is still be able to kill everybody in a second. It is just something against this 1shot fest. It makes the pvp abit more competitive. It´s about to give the equipment a reason for being, besides the weapon. Right now, victory or defeat is decided on who has the longer breath or use more Soul Crystals. That has nothing to do with skill or competition, it´s just kinda p2w right now. Pay more than your enemy and you win.
Also: I dont think that my opinion is the only correct solution, but I think the 1shot fest is abit more than just a few op chars. And to have fun in pvp we have to do something against it. The reduce dmg solution might not be the best, but it´s by far easier to implement than adjust every single skill of a char and also it does work on RGE. The -50% less PC dmg is there for a reason and we try to get only 25% here.
This is a very difficult topic and I neither had the time nor the nerves to think about it.
Read all answers for the third time now and I've decided to put the status to [PENDING].
Here is what my current belief:
1. Reducing the global PVP damage by a certain percentage alone doesn't solve the problem, it is one of multiple measures required.
2. Nerfing certain characters as a measure by itself doesn't improve situation, PVP will remain a oneshot clown-fiesta.
Possible solution is doing both points mentioned above. Players can say what they want but for a long time in game history there is a pool of 3-5 cash characters that is so utterly overpowered that players don't even waste a millisecond thinking about choosing characters outside of that meta pool.
Obviously there always has been and always will be a meta-pool of characters but it shouldn't be the "3-5 newest cash characters" and they shouldn't be that insanely broken. Such a change will most likely cause high amount of hate from minority of players but in all honesty I don't care about that. We are here to fix what is broken.
Read all answers for the third time now and I've decided to put the status to [PENDING].
Here is what my current belief:
1. Reducing the global PVP damage by a certain percentage alone doesn't solve the problem, it is one of multiple measures required.
2. Nerfing certain characters as a measure by itself doesn't improve situation, PVP will remain a oneshot clown-fiesta.
Possible solution is doing both points mentioned above. Players can say what they want but for a long time in game history there is a pool of 3-5 cash characters that is so utterly overpowered that players don't even waste a millisecond thinking about choosing characters outside of that meta pool.
Obviously there always has been and always will be a meta-pool of characters but it shouldn't be the "3-5 newest cash characters" and they shouldn't be that insanely broken. Such a change will most likely cause high amount of hate from minority of players but in all honesty I don't care about that. We are here to fix what is broken.
i agree with this. it was very successful in rge. gives people a chance to survive one skill. would make rkess more manageable for the people crying over that. makes it more worth while getting gears for more then the set effect of armors and accessories to 1 shot better lol. people who outgear others still win which is how it is now too lol. makes some characters raid bosses in a sense, but the ones that cant die dont do damage enough to kill by building that way.
some1 mentioned -25% pve dmg being a problem here. if you read the origional post it says x% PVP damage. no pve change at all.
for the weaker characters that really dont do much now maybe eventually tey will be balanced in. for old characters that will become useless i would like to see how often they are used now sense they are apparently not useless.
nerfing 1-5 characters will just cause no one to use those 1-5 characters while the many other characters have full damage in pvp
didnt realize was just a bump sense i read first page lol. still wish to put my thoughts on it sense it was a good idea in rge and pvp there is still fine
some1 mentioned -25% pve dmg being a problem here. if you read the origional post it says x% PVP damage. no pve change at all.
for the weaker characters that really dont do much now maybe eventually tey will be balanced in. for old characters that will become useless i would like to see how often they are used now sense they are apparently not useless.
nerfing 1-5 characters will just cause no one to use those 1-5 characters while the many other characters have full damage in pvp
didnt realize was just a bump sense i read first page lol. still wish to put my thoughts on it sense it was a good idea in rge and pvp there is still fine
Every MMORPG / Game that has introduction of new characters or updates to old characters will always have a revolving door of "META" characters. its how game companies get people to keep playing their game/ make money from people. sadly some times until updates come that balance stuff out or bring new characters into the fray. you just deal with it until the next slice of pie comes around and everyone will be using that. thats how the games work.
trying to fix characters or nerf them with unofficial patches before official patches come out may just make this into a rGE duplicate.
MSB was a victim of having nerfs backported early because of insane dps. look at the fall out from that. now imagine it on every other character people have complained about.
would just be easier to complain about it and wait for offical patches to roll in. then try to go about making your own and doing something that breaks everything.
trying to fix characters or nerf them with unofficial patches before official patches come out may just make this into a rGE duplicate.
MSB was a victim of having nerfs backported early because of insane dps. look at the fall out from that. now imagine it on every other character people have complained about.
would just be easier to complain about it and wait for offical patches to roll in. then try to go about making your own and doing something that breaks everything.
Just a few thoughts:
1) GE`s PVP is oneshot fiesta. That`s a fact.
2) Improving it is not as simple as -PVP damage. It needs a full balance overhaul. Not just chars, but whole system. I think the most "fair" approach was Team Arena (MOBA-like event, where event-specific buffs simply swapped all the basic mechanics, so you`re more powerful if you`re playing it right, regardless of chars and stuff. But once again- it`s A HUGE amount of work. Not even everything is 100% possible.
3) -% PvP damage will make fights feel more "fair" with less oneshots, but in fact it`ll simply swap the meta from "assassin"-like chars to more "balanced" chars that combine moderate damage and tanky stats. Like Ania, for example. That`ll solve the problems we have now, but will make new problems appear. Few of this is already mentioned.
4) There`s a risk that PvP will become pot-spamming. One-shot fiesta is at least dynamic, yah. Believe me, MMOs that rely on pot-spamming PVP sucks. Its possible to solve (no one will care about 10-15k pots if everyone have 500k+ HP, for example), but once again - the whole system needs overhaul, which is not a question private server can solve. I mean... Even IMC chose a lazy way in solving PVP issues in Wx Fixed, equalizing all the stances in damage...which once again brought another bunch of problems, as chars with specific mechanics became more powerful then chars that relies on high base % (which is equalized) and high stats.
5) The more customization changes concerning balance AGE make- the less is the chance to recruit more players from other servers. Rewards and questlines are okay, as its mainly improvements , but balance changes is a kind of different thing. Ppl have expectations regarding the whole game balance, which is born from IMC`s patches. Having a totally different balance layout is possible (old JGE), but once again-that`s a huge amount of work, and players who used to play IMC will no longer look at your server as on "vanilla GE" (once again- old JGE. Many players i know haven`t joined it simply because "It`s customized to the level where it`s not the same game anymore.). That`s like telling "We`re having our own party there!". I can barely remember any mid-level customization private shard in any MMO i`ve played, that survived for a long time and got successful.
6) Anyway, let`s not rush too much into this kind of things. Let the playerbase stabilize (atm ppl are still joining, i can see it from GE-related medias) before we rush to any balance changes at all. Let as many ppl as possible join on regular basis , and overall "ITS CUSTOMIZED" hype qiet a bit. I would even suggest to put a veto on any balance-related questions for a month or two. Simply to let the dust settle.
1) GE`s PVP is oneshot fiesta. That`s a fact.
2) Improving it is not as simple as -PVP damage. It needs a full balance overhaul. Not just chars, but whole system. I think the most "fair" approach was Team Arena (MOBA-like event, where event-specific buffs simply swapped all the basic mechanics, so you`re more powerful if you`re playing it right, regardless of chars and stuff. But once again- it`s A HUGE amount of work. Not even everything is 100% possible.
3) -% PvP damage will make fights feel more "fair" with less oneshots, but in fact it`ll simply swap the meta from "assassin"-like chars to more "balanced" chars that combine moderate damage and tanky stats. Like Ania, for example. That`ll solve the problems we have now, but will make new problems appear. Few of this is already mentioned.
4) There`s a risk that PvP will become pot-spamming. One-shot fiesta is at least dynamic, yah. Believe me, MMOs that rely on pot-spamming PVP sucks. Its possible to solve (no one will care about 10-15k pots if everyone have 500k+ HP, for example), but once again - the whole system needs overhaul, which is not a question private server can solve. I mean... Even IMC chose a lazy way in solving PVP issues in Wx Fixed, equalizing all the stances in damage...which once again brought another bunch of problems, as chars with specific mechanics became more powerful then chars that relies on high base % (which is equalized) and high stats.
5) The more customization changes concerning balance AGE make- the less is the chance to recruit more players from other servers. Rewards and questlines are okay, as its mainly improvements , but balance changes is a kind of different thing. Ppl have expectations regarding the whole game balance, which is born from IMC`s patches. Having a totally different balance layout is possible (old JGE), but once again-that`s a huge amount of work, and players who used to play IMC will no longer look at your server as on "vanilla GE" (once again- old JGE. Many players i know haven`t joined it simply because "It`s customized to the level where it`s not the same game anymore.). That`s like telling "We`re having our own party there!". I can barely remember any mid-level customization private shard in any MMO i`ve played, that survived for a long time and got successful.
6) Anyway, let`s not rush too much into this kind of things. Let the playerbase stabilize (atm ppl are still joining, i can see it from GE-related medias) before we rush to any balance changes at all. Let as many ppl as possible join on regular basis , and overall "ITS CUSTOMIZED" hype qiet a bit. I would even suggest to put a veto on any balance-related questions for a month or two. Simply to let the dust settle.