[ACCEPTED]Forbid killing own secondary account on Clique Battle

Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
688
290
There has been an ongoing discussion on Discord about following topic:
A player shouldn't be allowed to bring his own secondary account (alt) and constantly kill it in a repeated manner at Clique Battle.
We believe it is important to continue this discussion ob Website for transparency.

Players have stated several reasons why this currently is an issue.
a) Killing your own secondary account yields many Clique Battle points while there is no actual difficulty involved.
In comparison, killing other players actually involves character choices, equipment, buffs, movement, etc.
b) This incentivizes creation and usage of more accounts then we currently allow.
c) Majority of other GE servers have forbidden this due to proper arguments made by players.

Decision will be made before 09.10.2020 so we have enough time to inform community before next Clique Battle on 11.10.2020.

What will happen if suggestion is accepted?
1. Documentation of community rules will be updated with a new rule against this.
2. New community rule will be announced along with maintenance and before next Clique Battle.
3. Players who did this until now will NOT receive a penalty, since until now this isn't forbidden.
4. Bringing both accounts to Clique Battle will remain allowed, accounts can be used for every type of action except for killing account A with account B or vice versa.

How will this rule be enforced if suggestion is accepted?
1. This can't be automated so we have to reply on player reports.
2. Whenever you see such a suspicious activity, please do a player report.
 

Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
688
290
Additional note: So far nobody has voiced concerns against such a change.
It is very likely this will be implemented, unlike someone shows up and provides good arguments why it should remain allowed.
 

Valerhia

Active member
Mar 29, 2020
38
7
I'm fine with this, moving forward it shouldn't be allowed in Clique Battle since it ruins the fun out of it.

Problem would be, do we need to take a screenshot of the perpetrator actually doing the deed of killing Account B? Can we do a screenshot of either their score on the board at the end of CB or catch them doing it?

Realistically speaking, no one enters CB thinking, "Hey let me find some abusers to report". No. People join CB to beat the living hell out of each other and that should be the only purpose of going to CB. Can you be more specific as to how the reports should be done?
 
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Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
27
0
a) Killing your own secondary account yields many Clique Battle points while there is no actual difficulty involved.
In comparison, killing other players actually involves character choices, equipment, buffs, movement, etc.
Alt killing takes away from the whole point of clique battle to begin with- on top of all reasons listed in the post. I'm not sure if a valid argument for it could exist but I'm curious to see if someone will attempt at one.
 

vonDrach

Member
Sep 8, 2020
6
0
even without ever being in a CB, its a PvP where you get rewarded for your Progress and your Strength inside PvP.

Killing an alt repetitiv is skipping the actual objectiv and destroys the nature of the mode.
 

Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
688
290
I'm fine with this, moving forward it shouldn't be allowed in Clique Battle since it ruins the fun out of it.

Problem would be, do we need to take a screenshot of the perpetrator actually doing the deed of killing Account B? Can we do a screenshot of either their score on the board at the end of CB or catch them doing it?

Realistically speaking, no one enters CB thinking, "Hey let me find some abusers to report". No. People join CB to beat the living hell out of each other and that should be the only purpose of going to CB. Can you be more specific as to how the reports should be done?
A screenshot of simply the scores at the end won't suffice. There is no way to check what a player did after Clique Battle has finished.
Yet I understand that nobody will go arround for an hour checking if there are suspicious activities.

Based on my experience from RogueGE, players (at least the majority, if not all) stop alt killing if it is forbidden because the consequences are harsh (temporary or even permanent ban). There is also the possibility to check suspicious players on upcoming Clique Battle based on screenshot of results from previous Clique Battle.
 

Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
688
290
Suggestion has been accepted. As a result communtiy rules will be changed instantly.
Killing your secondary account (alt/mule) in Clique Battle is forbidden from now on.
 

Covid2020

Member
Apr 8, 2020
14
3
Killing alts. has a cooldown just like if you killed someone in rapid succession in under a minute. so i dont know how this is viable at all. someone killed someone for an hour and a half would only come up with 60-90 kills with the system they already have in place.

second if someone considers this "RUINING" cb they are fking stupid. one person free farming their alt where ever will not make a difference at all in CB score. one because the alt wont have a high ranking so you wont get as many points as you would if you killed a general or above.

how about GM goes tests it for an hour and sees if it actually makes a difference in gameplay. only way this would affect gameplay is if person had multiple alts being farmed nonstop. which would be against rules already.
Good luck timing it to the point where when you kill someone you'll get CB points. and not get the message "youve killed this player recently and wont recieve any points for the kill"
 
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Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
27
0
Killing alts. has a cooldown just like if you killed someone in rapid succession in under a minute. so i dont know how this is viable at all. someone killed someone for an hour and a half would only come up with 60-90 kills with the system they already have in place.

second if someone considers this "RUINING" cb they are fking stupid. one person free farming their alt where ever will not make a difference at all in CB score. one because the alt wont have a high ranking so you wont get as many points as you would if you killed a general or above.

how about GM goes tests it for an hour and sees if it actually makes a difference in gameplay. only way this would affect gameplay is if person had multiple alts being farmed nonstop. which would be against rules already.
Good luck timing it to the point where when you kill someone you'll get CB points. and not get the message "youve killed this player recently and wont recieve any points for the kill"
The process requires three accounts at minimum, which everyone knew already.
  • Main Account
  • 1st Alt
  • 2nd Alt
The main kills the 1st alt, then the 2nd alt and continues to rotate between the two. This resets the penalty over and over. You can gain a higher kill count by having a 3rd alt (or a main/friend) that is ressing your alts over and over.


Good luck timing it to the point where when you kill someone you'll get CB points. and not get the message "youve killed this player recently and wont recieve any points for the kill"
Please do not talk about only being able to get 60-90 kills by killing alts. I have personally watched people farm 500+ on alts on official server before. You don't understand the system yet in your post continue to say people are "fking stupid".

The fact you're so offended by this change shows a lot, because you've provided zero reasons this is a necessary function for the server. If you can't even list out the positives of having such a mechanic within the rules/tos then I don't know what you're crying about.

The negatives were too much for any "positive" it brought. To be frank, not a single person even argued there was a positive. That's why it was implemented. You had your chance, you posted after it was official and still made no argument in that regard.
 
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GhostMen

Member
May 12, 2020
9
0
There has been an ongoing discussion on Discord about following topic:
A player shouldn't be allowed to bring his own secondary account (alt) and constantly kill it in a repeated manner at Clique Battle.
We believe it is important to continue this discussion ob Website for transparency.

Players have stated several reasons why this currently is an issue.
a) Killing your own secondary account yields many Clique Battle points while there is no actual difficulty involved.
In comparison, killing other players actually involves character choices, equipment, buffs, movement, etc.
b) This incentivizes creation and usage of more accounts then we currently allow.
c) Majority of other GE servers have forbidden this due to proper arguments made by players.

Decision will be made before 09.10.2020 so we have enough time to inform community before next Clique Battle on 11.10.2020.

What will happen if suggestion is accepted?
1. Documentation of community rules will be updated with a new rule against this.
2. New community rule will be announced along with maintenance and before next Clique Battle.
3. Players who did this until now will NOT receive a penalty, since until now this isn't forbidden.
4. Bringing both accounts to Clique Battle will remain allowed, accounts can be used for every type of action except for killing account A with account B or vice versa.

How will this rule be enforced if suggestion is accepted?
1. This can't be automated so we have to reply on player reports.
2. Whenever you see such a suspicious activity, please do a player report.
I don't think why are you guys annoyed by this. In my opinion, if you are committed to change this action not like it, you can completely eliminate the players who are doing the action.
Because in Cb wants to do the work, you can also have the design you do not like or the clone of the person.
Dianmir
Your cleaning thing is not satisfactory. The mechanism of action of the rules for players to participate in destroying each other.
and if the player does not like a certain action of the rest of the players in the CB (as stated in this post) then they can directly prevent it from happening (why don't they do it? but instead of her?).
You are a GM but get into the game with the same things, it will reduce the game's appeal! (And the other thing is, I don't want Age to enter Rge's path)
 

Covid2020

Member
Apr 8, 2020
14
3
The process requires three accounts at minimum, which everyone knew already.
  • Main Account
  • 1st Alt
  • 2nd Alt
The main kills the 1st alt, then the 2nd alt and continues to rotate between the two. This resets the penalty over and over. You can gain a higher kill count by having a 3rd alt (or a main/friend) that is ressing your alts over and over.



Please do not talk about only being able to get 60-90 kills by killing alts. I have personally watched people farm 500+ on alts on official server before. You don't understand the system yet in your post continue to say people are "fking stupid".

The fact you're so absurdly offended by this change shows a lot, because you've provided zero reasons this is a necessary function for the server. If you can't even list out the positives of having such a mechanic within the rules/tos then I don't know what you're crying about.

The negatives were too much for any "positive" it brought. To be frank, not a single person even argued there was a positive. That's why it was implemented. You had your chance, you posted after it was official and still made no argument in that regard.
Compared Official server to your private server. where someone can multibox 20 accounts into clique battle where you only allow main account plus 2 accounts? so you kill one account their respawn is 1 minute. they have to run back. you have second account get killed their respawn is 1 minute, then they have to run back to get killed. Maybe you DONT understand your system. but nice comparison in Clique battle of people farming 500+ kills on their alts in the Official servers.
 

Covid2020

Member
Apr 8, 2020
14
3
I don't think why are you guys annoyed by this. In my opinion, if you are committed to change this action not like it, you can completely eliminate the players who are doing the action.
Because in Cb wants to do the work, you can also have the design you do not like or the clone of the person.
Dianmir
Your cleaning thing is not satisfactory. The mechanism of action of the rules for players to participate in destroying each other.
and if the player does not like a certain action of the rest of the players in the CB (as stated in this post) then they can directly prevent it from happening (why don't they do it? but instead of her?).
You are a GM but get into the game with the same things, it will reduce the game's appeal! (And the other thing is, I don't want Age to enter Rge's path)
This a GM compares his test server roulette compared to the p.server roulette with 400+ people. and tells anyone that call him out on his "reasons" they are incorrect because it worked for him on his TEST server lmao
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
27
0
Compared Official server to your private server. where someone can multibox 20 accounts into clique battle where you only allow main account plus 2 accounts? so you kill one account their respawn is 1 minute. they have to run back. you have second account get killed their respawn is 1 minute, then they have to run back to get killed. Maybe you DONT understand your system. but nice comparison in Clique battle of people farming 500+ kills on their alts in the Official servers.
I don't understand why you're so fixated on the fact that you can't achieve 500 with one account. You can achieve 500 kills with alts, which is a fact. Yes more than one alt is against the rules already but numerous other reasons are outlined for why killing any alts is toxic to the community.

a) Killing your own secondary account yields many Clique Battle points while there is no actual difficulty involved.
In comparison, killing other players actually involves character choices, equipment, buffs, movement, etc.
b) This incentivizes creation and usage of more accounts then we currently allow.
c) This negates the efforts players are making on their own gear, skill, and pvp strategies to get high amounts of legitimate kills on the rankings.

"high amounts of kills" is very subjective. One person could consider 30 kills to be a high amount, especially if they are not well geared, or skilled. At the end of the day, your free kills on your alt are overshadowing players actual effort.

You keep getting heated over the topic and haven't provided a single reason this is a positive function for the server. If it's such a big deal to allow alt killing then what is your reasoning? Look at all of the cons that have been previously posted in this thread, and actually I would do a search on discord as most of the conversations were held there.

So what are you whining about? You're complaining it was made a rule and yet giving no reason it should be allowed. How about instead of picking out just a few parts to try and twist to sound like you make sense, you actually come up with a valid reason we need alt killing? But hey in a PvP event you're getting an insane amount of PvP by killing only yourself right? I bet next you'll try to convince everyone that by killing your alt you are participating in Player vs Player.

I don't think why are you guys annoyed by this. In my opinion, if you are committed to change this action not like it, you can completely eliminate the players who are doing the action.
Because in Cb wants to do the work, you can also have the design you do not like or the clone of the person.
Dianmir
Your cleaning thing is not satisfactory. The mechanism of action of the rules for players to participate in destroying each other.
and if the player does not like a certain action of the rest of the players in the CB (as stated in this post) then they can directly prevent it from happening (why don't they do it? but instead of her?).
You are a GM but get into the game with the same things, it will reduce the game's appeal! (And the other thing is, I don't want Age to enter Rge's path)
Instead of complaining how about giving solid arguments for why it should be allowed? If you don't give any input other than your dislike for the change then you'll get no where.

Explain to us why we need this? Why does it out weigh the negatives?
 
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GhostMen

Member
May 12, 2020
9
0
Granado Espada first appeared in 2006
So far, I have been playing this game for 11 years, in the process of which I have changed a lot of Sever games.
Many friends also have many enemies.
Until now I still love this game, it gives me a feeling of adventure and explore new lands, conquer powerful bosses.
In the process there are players that have left and new players joining.
I thank all Age GMs for creating a new playground for all Granado Espada members, but I also wish that this playground would enter the path of other GE servers that were closed forever.
Do you have an eye on why previous servers have closed yet?
I will give my opinion about servers that are closed and about to close,
1. The main reason for those servers is that they do not allow new people to know the game or they do very modestly.
2. Gm is too deep into the game. (they create items that are too powerful to sell to a small number of players, or have preferences for a handful of players known as server VIPs)
3. Gm makes unreasonable rules.
Here are my personal opinion.
I hear my friends who are formerly Gm of Age have worked with GM of RGe. So you GM AGe, have you ever thought about why Rge is a free server but AGE. But why go into the situation like now?
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
27
0
Granado Espada first appeared in 2006
So far, I have been playing this game for 11 years, in the process of which I have changed a lot of Sever games.
Many friends also have many enemies.
Until now I still love this game, it gives me a feeling of adventure and explore new lands, conquer powerful bosses.
In the process there are players that have left and new players joining.
I thank all Age GMs for creating a new playground for all Granado Espada members, but I also wish that this playground would enter the path of other GE servers that were closed forever.
Do you have an eye on why previous servers have closed yet?
I will give my opinion about servers that are closed and about to close,
1. The main reason for those servers is that they do not allow new people to know the game or they do very modestly.
2. Gm is too deep into the game. (they create items that are too powerful to sell to a small number of players, or have preferences for a handful of players known as server VIPs)
3. Gm makes unreasonable rules.
Here are my personal opinion.
I hear my friends who are formerly Gm of Age have worked with GM of RGe. So you GM AGe, have you ever thought about why Rge is a free server but AGE. But why go into the situation like now?
What in the hell does any of that have to do with forbidding alt killing?
 

GhostMen

Member
May 12, 2020
9
0
Người chơi hoàn toàn có thể ngăn người chơi farm kill trong CB.
Những người cảm thấy khó khăn trong việc farm kill trong CB tại sao họ không nhấc mông lên và đi tìm và giết những người chơi đó.
thay vào đó họ đang phàn nàn với GM để che giấu sự lười biếng của họ?
Và luật farm kill trong Cb rất phi lý, bảo sao không để người chơi phàn nàn về điều đó
 

Belligero

Active member
Jul 14, 2020
32
4
Người chơi hoàn toàn có thể ngăn người chơi farm kill trong CB.
Những người cảm thấy khó khăn trong việc farm kill trong CB tại sao họ không nhấc mông lên và đi tìm và giết những người chơi đó.
thay vào đó họ đang phàn nàn với GM để che giấu sự lười biếng của họ?
Và luật farm kill trong Cb rất phi lý, bảo sao không để người chơi phàn nàn về điều đó
It shouldn't be the players' job to moderate other players' behavior if something is universally deemed abusive.

Yes, we could have ignored it and not ask for any rules to be implemented against it and continuously seek out the abusers and kill them in the act, but that takes away from enjoying the whole experience of being in the fray of clique battles.
 

GhostMen

Member
May 12, 2020
9
0
It shouldn't be the players' job to moderate other players' behavior if something is universally deemed abusive.

Yes, we could have ignored it and not ask for any rules to be implemented against it and continuously seek out the abusers and kill them in the act, but that takes away from enjoying the whole experience of being in the fray of clique battles.
What do you understand about CB. When you talk about it, I know you don't understand anything about the CB
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
27
0
What do you understand about CB. When you talk about it, I know you don't understand anything about the CB
Ok so explain to me why I don't understand it? I've only played this game since before CB existed. And nothing you said in any of your posts explained why we should have alt killing in CB.
 
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