[ACCEPTED]Remove Extra Channels From Colony Maps

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
[Suggestion] Remove all extra channels on colony maps.

First and foremost I would not feel the need to suggest this if the game mechanics that have existed for eternity were not in play still. You cannot save a warp within 70m of a colony. Being able to swap from ch2 ch3 directly on the colony makes absolutely no sense. It removes tactics for defending colonies i.e choke points on certain maps. Instead of PvP being required to enter a colony, you now are automatically at the colony and don't have to sweat about fighting to get there. No one wants to PvP anymore because well why would you when you can simply swap channels with Aclla to ninja colonies.


Positive effects:
  • The 70m warp restriction is no longer useless on colonies with more than one channel.
  • Map layouts actually matter i.e. choke points on specific maps.
  • Map layouts actually matter i.e. open colonies like Peril actually benefit the attacking side more as they can come from all directions.
  • People actually need to PvP to get to colonies.
Negative effects:
  • People actually need to PvP to get to colonies.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts. Colony War is a weekly PvP server event - channel swap tactics help negate that fact, so what's the argument for it?

Side note:
I went to all ten of the colonies and not a single family resided on any of the channel 1's (with scan map) except Katovic & Ustiur 1. Which, when I checked ch2 on both maps there was no one there. So it seems like one channel is all that's being farmed anyway.
 
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Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
729
320
I have put the suggestion status to [PENDING]. This will require heavy discussion from players before we change anything.
Quick history lesson about it: On RenaissanceGE and AndromidaGE I always saw that a second channel was required due to new players getting caught in PVP whenever Colony War takes place.

This might not be the cause nowadays anymore since the influx of new players has decreased, the server/community has settled and can't be considered new anymore.
 

trapgame

New member
Apr 30, 2020
1
0
There is no purpose to having a ch2 / 3 on Colony War maps at least during colony war times.

It can be as simple as turning the channels off during Colony War and then back on when Colony War is in place otherwise take the channels out entirely. Making the argument that new players need the channel open is invalid. If you are unlucky enough to need to go to these specific maps for a quest during the exact time colony war is taking place than come back during the other 166.5 hours of the week.
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
There is no purpose to having a ch2 / 3 on Colony War maps at least during colony war times.

It can be as simple as turning the channels off during Colony War and then back on when Colony War is in place otherwise take the channels out entirely. Making the argument that new players need the channel open is invalid. If you are unlucky enough to need to go to these specific maps for a quest during the exact time colony war is taking place than come back during the other 166.5 hours of the week.
Giving up 1.5 hours seems miniscule for just a few accounts (mostly alts). The problem of having extra channels itself is more of an oversight rather than intention in terms of Colony War. Some maps don't have a second channel and some have three, for example. If the sole reason behind it is the new players/afk we are talking about 1-5 families on KTV or Ustiur at most, which 99% of the time are alts that farm there every day and are not "new". 1.5 Hours is not a lot to give up for a weekly PvP event as old as the game itself. Colony War consists of a lot more people than 1-5 players so the ends justify the means I believe. I don't want to push away new players, but as GE has really focused on forcing players into PvP in the first place. For example you cannot join a clan without the possibility of being killed by another clan. Joining Clans, Joining Wars, AFK farming- essentially by playing the game you can die at any time. Nothing as of right now is protecting new players from baron alts in theory. Baron is really uncommon but vs new players/alts its as easy as it gets.

Note that clanless players are not red to anyone on a colony map and would not get caught up in any PvP. New players that happen to be in a clan are likely already introduced into PvP as a lot of clans on the server are at war and ALL clans have the possibility of being at war with no say.
 
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Belligero

Active member
Jul 14, 2020
33
4
It's starting to sound like an echo chamber in here but I'll add my two cents as well.

Quick history lesson about it: On RenaissanceGE and AndromidaGE I always saw that a second channel was required due to new players getting caught in PVP whenever Colony War takes place.
I have to say if this is the strongest grounds for why we have extra channels on these maps, it is an extremely weak argument against the cascades of reasons against it.
Not to repeat anything that's already been said but think of it like this: the majority of players playing this game (especially on this server) are a dedicated player-base that has been playing Granado Espada for over a decade.

Why are we trying to cater to an almost non-existent group as to not maybe inconvenience them for a minuscule fraction of the week? What's the turnover rate for these truly new players these days? Do they tend to stick around and invest into playing the game for a long time?

They're unicorns. They don't really exist, especially not on a private server like this.
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
Now if anyone that participates in Colony War has objections I would love to hear their angles as well.
 

Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
729
320
Now if anyone that participates in Colony War has objections I would love to hear their angles as well.
There have been objections against this suggestion but only via personal message on Discord.
I asked those players to voice their concerns on this forum thread for transparency as stated in community rules.

Virath said:
There is no purpose to having a ch2 / 3 on Colony War maps at least during colony war times.
It can be as simple as turning the channels off during Colony War and then back on when Colony War is in place otherwise take the channels out entirely.
This would by far be the best solution for every server, sadly game engine doesn't allow this.
Changes to channels require a maintenance and amount of channels is static while server is running.

Anyways, decision will be made before 13.10.2020 so changes can be applied with maintenance on 13.10.2020.
Since no arguments were given against this, it will be very likely implemented.
 
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Valerhia

Active member
Mar 29, 2020
42
7
I'm against this, channel 2 should remain open as an option for surprise attacks.

Also, since time immemorial, colonies have had channel 2 since way back around when CW was first introduced into the game. Players should have the freedom to choose how and when they want to attack a colony and having multiple channels provides an additional option.

Removing channel 2 will make CW a one-trick pony deal and bland. But thats just my opinion on it.
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
I'm against this, channel 2 should remain open as an option for surprise attacks.

Also, since time immemorial, colonies have had channel 2 since way back around when CW was first introduced into the game. Players should have the freedom to choose how and when they want to attack a colony and having multiple channels provides an additional option.
This is completely against what the channels are for in the first place. They are for the other players not participating in Colony War which is why sometimes channels have 3 options and some have 2 and some don't have any extra channels. If you're implying they existed to give options to take colonies, they simply don't exist for that reason.

It takes away from the fact that Colony War is a PvP mode and with this tactic it makes it easier to focus only on DPS. Which directly encourages people to not PvP. When it comes down to it, if you can't win the PvP, why should you win the colonies. You're asking for cheap and borderline abusive mechanics to help win colonies. Do you want colony wars to be solely DPS wars? As if they aren't sided to DPS more already? Specifically one character (aclla). You're encouraging people not to build PvP gear and characters in a mode that's meant to encourage PvP.

You haven't addressed the first major concern either, like the fact you are bypassing the entire point of not being allowed to save warps within 70m of the colony- which is one of the first things mentioned in the OP. This sole reason is what makes this so called "tactic" borderline abusive.

Bypass 70m warp limit - CHECK
Bypass strategic placement of defenders - CHECK
Bypass ALL PvP required to enter colony area - CHECK

Yeah definitely not abusive. Definitely doesn't encourage people not to PvP.

Removing channel 2 will make CW a one-trick pony deal and bland. But thats just my opinion on it.
Far from it. In fact I believe leaving it as it stands encourages the exact opposite. When you can't win PvP you resort to -only- channel swapping.
 
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waynemizuno

Active member
Mar 29, 2020
39
0
I'm against this because people still farm in those maps, especially with the drop rate boost during CW, removing ch2 means taking away this opportunity to farm some specific materials easier. And a lot of those materials are used for quests. Not everyone wants to spend money to buy everything from the market. Some people still want to farm everything themselves.

There have been fewer new players, but it doesn't mean they don't exist at all. Suggestions like this will only affect the health of the server because only a small group of veteran players gets benefited. The newer players are not taken into concern.

Switching channels is not abusing any warp limit or bug, it's just a tactic. It's not that you can instantly switch, there is a 5s waiting time and the loading time when you switch.
 

Belligero

Active member
Jul 14, 2020
33
4
I'm against this because people still farm in those maps, especially with the drop rate boost during CW, removing ch2 means taking away this opportunity to farm some specific materials easier.
You want to be more specific? Like what the hell are you farming at Lago Celeste that you can't do something else for 1.5 hours of the week? Deserted Quay? Tres Hermanas? Bonavista?

Sure you can actually come up with a weak argument for Ustiur Uno, Peril and KTV, but then there's alternatives like the other 3 Ustiur maps, Swamp of Eternity, Frozen Plain, etc.

It's hardly a reason to keep them around, and even then, if one or two maps justify keeping the extra channel, the rest should still be removed.
 
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Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
I'm against this because people still farm in those maps, especially with the drop rate boost during CW, removing ch2 means taking away this opportunity to farm some specific materials easier. And a lot of those materials are used for quests. Not everyone wants to spend money to buy everything from the market. Some people still want to farm everything themselves.

There have been fewer new players, but it doesn't mean they don't exist at all. Suggestions like this will only affect the health of the server because only a small group of veteran players gets benefited. The newer players are not taken into concern.
Switching channels is not abusing any warp limit or bug, it's just a tactic. It's not that you can instantly switch, there is a 5s waiting time and the loading time when you switch.
Clearly you do not farm the map yourself and don't understand how many people actually do, or which maps they farm. Only two of all ten maps have any families on them at any given time during the week, and usually just on channel 1 (the map CW takes place on on).

Quit acting like there are extreme downsides to channel swapping. It is 10x easier to warp to channels that players are not participating in colony war and swap over. It is 10x easier to swap over rather than PvP to get to the colony. Are you asking players to leave CW (by going to any channel other than one) to defend against these "tactics"?

Do not forget new players not in a clan are not targetable on colony maps.

Switching channels is not abusing any warp limit or bug, it's just a tactic. It's not that you can instantly switch, there is a 5s waiting time and the loading time when you switch.
As previously stated you are completely ignoring all validations that this is abuse of the warp limit.
  • Please explain why this does not circumvent the RESTRICTION on 70m warps.
  • Please explain why this does not bypass PvP required to enter a colony.
You are simply saying "it does not imo" which is not very constructive. How about some actual facts to accompany subjective opinions?

So far ITT, we see only valid concerns that this will affect new players. I believe only Dianmir has the information to accurately allocate any meaningful data in that regard so I will leave this part up to him to decide how many players this could possibly effect (and more specifically at this specific time and day) the stars really have to align to cause any non CW participant any grief at all. Again, if a player is not in a clan, they are not killed during colony war.

This will not affect materials for the server (1.5 hours out of 168 hours). Explain how many truly required materials we need for our server not to die that we are getting in that time frame. Extra channels are just not being farmed like you would like to imply. Please do some research before saying people are farming these maps, or specifically which ones, channels, and how often.
 
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Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
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Dianmir

Administrator
Staff member
Mar 25, 2020
729
320
Any update on this?
Sorry for not being arround alot. I'm sick since last Friday, had wisdom teeth pulled which caused a lower jaw infection.
Can't talk, can't eat, one side of face and neck looking like a boxer after getting beatup. No work for me, sleeping all day due to heavy medication.

I'll get back to this topic once I've recovered.
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
Sorry for not being arround alot. I'm sick since last Friday, had wisdom teeth pulled which caused a lower jaw infection.
Can't talk, can't eat, one side of face and neck looking like a boxer after getting beatup. No work for me, sleeping all day due to heavy medication.

I'll get back to this topic once I've recovered.
Sorry to hear about that, I hope your recovery goes well.
 

vonDrach

Member
Sep 8, 2020
6
0
my suggestion would be, if possible:

a. While colony war you cant change channel.
b. if you switch from ch2 to 1 gain a Debuff, like re-entering a Instanced Mission
c. introduce the 70m range on all channels.
d. if all fails goodbye 2nd channel.

cause for me , like using war do harrass Faction or kill its own alt on CB, this is no Tactic but just "abuse" of a Mechanic that isnt fixed to prevent it.
 

Virath

Active member
May 1, 2020
33
0
my suggestion would be, if possible:

a. While colony war you cant change channel.
b. if you switch from ch2 to 1 gain a Debuff, like re-entering a Instanced Mission
c. introduce the 70m range on all channels.
d. if all fails goodbye 2nd channel.

cause for me , like using war do harrass Faction or kill its own alt on CB, this is no Tactic but just "abuse" of a Mechanic that isnt fixed to prevent it.
Option A. is a good option but as Dianmir said this is out of the question due to the engine.
Option B. would need to be something like -50% atk debuff for 2minutes. This is probably out of the question due to engine limitations as well, I assume.
Option C. would not fix the problems in the first place. The 70m limit is only for saving warps and not swapping channels.

The best option to fix this is to make it impossible to channel swap within 70m of the colony, just like how you can't save a warp within 70m of the colony. However, I don't expect Dianmir willing enough to implement this one either due to the complexity it may impose. This is why we are left with the only option which is to remove the extra channels on the colony maps. All new players that still remain factionless, cannot be attacked. All new players that joined a faction are already being introduced to PvP nonetheless. KetuananMalayu has declared war on all of the afk/casual clans. The ones who have made effort to not harbor top faction alts and stay out of politics. So I really don't see how new players are being spared as it is in the first place. And of course, this is also just 1.5 hours a week. Some of these maps during CW are not farmed by even a single family.
 
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